On this episode, Karen is joined by Katie Haggerty. Katie takes Karen through her own recovery from an eating disorder as well as her journey towards body acceptance and body positivity.
On this episode, Karen is joined by Katie Haggerty. Katie takes Karen through her own recovery from an eating disorder as well as her journey towards body acceptance and body positivity.
Click here for a transcript of this episode.
Dr. Karen Nelson 00:02
[Piano music] Eating Disorders thrive in secrecy and shame. It's when we create a safe space for honest conversation that we'll find the opportunity for healing. Hi there. I'm Dr. Karen Nelson, licensed clinical psychologist at Melrose Center, welcoming you to Melrose Heals: A Conversation About Eating Disorders, a podcast designed to explore, discuss, and understand eating disorders and mental health. On today's episode, I'm joined by Katie Haggerty. She is passionate about movement and wants everyone to feel confident in their bodies. Katie's positivity is infectious and her journey towards recovery and self acceptance is one that I think will resonate with a lot of our listeners. Now, before I begin, I invite you to take a deep breath and join me in this space. Well, Katie it's so great to have you here. Welcome to the podcast.
Katie Haggerty 01:09
Thank you! I am literally jumping out of my skin and made like... I don't think it's wrong because other people do this too... made a paper chain up until the day that I...
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:17
Yay! [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 01:17
...Get to sit down with you.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:19
Love it! [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 01:19
And just have time.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:21
I'd love it if we could start by you introducing yourself.
Katie Haggerty 01:24
My name is Katie Haggerty. I am in the fitness industry. I co-own The Move For Good, a virtual fitness platform.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:33
So Katie and I know each other personally and we found each other through your movement platform.
Katie Haggerty 01:41
And I couldn't be more grateful! You, my friend, did your seven-day free trial.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:47
Right?
Katie Haggerty 01:48
And sent me message. A DM.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:51
That's right. Slid into your DMS, right? [laughs]
01:54
She slid right into the DM of my heart.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:58
Yah... [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 01:58
And I still, as confident as I am, I still carry those insecurities. The way I show up to this world has been a journey. I didn't always show up as sunshine in human form. To have had a journey, to have felt darkness, has really allowed me to meet people with light. And I think when you can really be aware and also honest with your journey, you can meet people more openly.
Dr. Karen Nelson 02:27
All of us are in process and it, you know, what is that old saying, "It's not about the destination, it's about the journey." Right?
Katie Haggerty 02:34
Yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 02:35
And I really hear that, right? That there's a lot of... you know, ups and downs in that space. If we kind of focus in on... part of that journey, as you were exploring and sharing with us... tell me about your interest in movement. If we kind of focus our attention there and kind of... how that showed up in your process.
Katie Haggerty 02:55
Yeah. It came from a childhood of having, you know, a very nurturing family... very loving family that extended out into, you know, a big family, even beyond just my immediate family And... but it came, you know, with... emotion, and connection to food when, you know, things went wrong for me. And with that, you know, instead of... and it's nobody's fault... it was just, you know, my parents, you know, just kind of like, "It's okay," you know, like... buying more food knowing that it would comfort me led to obesity. And it started when I was in first grade. And that comes with a cost too, of being made fun of and getting bullied every single day. But I had that home to come home to and my mom constantly telling me that "It's not your issue to hold on to, it's theirs." You know, she constantly was just a great teacher of someone can have their looks their entire life but that doesn't mean that they're, you know, they're going to learn what their heart can be so beautiful to become. And with that I, you know, went through this journey and I played sports and was supported the whole way and I just got to this day that I hit... I was around like 270 pounds, and I was in high school. And I just I remember the moment I looked in the mirror and I was just like, "Enough," like I couldn't carry this weight around anymore. And I knew there was something inside of me that wanted to break out. And that's where I asked my parents if I could join the local community center; and I grabbed my best friend Amber and she was my workout buddy at the time and we went there every day after school and we would hang from the lat pulldown bars. We had no idea what we were doing. But when we would go on our way back to the locker room there was this glass bubble, this room, where people were synchronized and working out together to music and I literally thought they were the New York Knicks like practicing in their offseason. [laughs] And I was like, "wow!" So while she went in the locker room and changed, I would just watch them in awe. And then one day, one of the instructors came out and actually talked to me and I thought I was getting invited to be on the New York Knicks dance team. And I was like, "I'm too young." She was invited me to the class, and she had said to me, "You know, would you like to come to class?" and I said, "I don't know." And I wasn't really good about speaking back to people, be or communicating with people because I thought they were judging me already. And I thought, you know, she had an alternative motive to put me in front of this class and be made fun of because that's all I knew. And she said, "You know what, you can buy a class pass at the front desk, but the first class is on me, come on in." I had never felt connection like that in my life. These people were so supportive. I fell a couple times, it was a step aerobics class. They cheered me on, and they were all decades older than me but it was the first place I actually felt truly accepted. And in that I understood the power of movement and connecting to your body, rather than just your thoughts. It really struck me into movement is therapy for the body. I can have so many conversations with myself. But that's one piece of it, or with others, the movement helps me bring myself back to reality.
Dr. Karen Nelson 06:42
So kind of focusing more on that background, right, and your background of this experience of having this first workout class, right? And really being in that place of connection with this instructor. Do you think that shaped your path of "I think this is what I want to do, or this is where I need to show up?" Or... Tell me more about that. Right. [laughs]
Katie Haggerty 07:04
Yes. definitely subconsciously, first. [laughs] I will share when I was... when I found that group I was a sophomore in high school, going into my junior year and then into my senior year. And by the time I was going to graduate high school they all had a going away party for me.
Dr. Karen Nelson 07:25
Aww [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 07:25
I know!
Dr. Karen Nelson 07:26
That's so sweet! That speaks to the connection, right? Community. And that's where we heal is in community! and grow! That's so cool.
Katie Haggerty 07:36
Yes. Hands down.
Dr. Karen Nelson 07:38
Wow. Why do you think it can be hard sometimes to move our bodies or, or to move into that space of fitness?
Katie Haggerty 07:45
What we see every single day of what we should look like in order to take the next step. Think about how many, how many things out there are... "When I get here, then." So what gets in people's way to get up and move? It is... insecurity, fear. I think that has a lot to play into it. So I think society really poses on us what we're supposed to look like in order to work out, which is completely opposite of the purpose of working out.
Dr. Karen Nelson 08:16
Good point! Absolutely.
Katie Haggerty 08:19
And really, there isn't a level that you have to be at. And I just want to really relay that message. People think like when I was looking into that, you know, glass globe, thinking like I had to learn dance steps. I didn't. And I just want to promote out there for anyone listening to this that... go in there and you are not going to get every step, but it is way more than the steps, It's about teaching yourself that you're capable of doing something...
Dr. Karen Nelson 08:49
That's right. [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 08:49
...and you can do anything. And really that is the movement process.
Dr. Karen Nelson 08:54
If it's okay with you, I'd love to ask you a couple questions about your journey towards body acceptance and positivity. Is it fair to say you haven't always felt comfortable in your body?
Katie Haggerty 09:05
100% Fair. It kind of was a snowball effect of... you know, getting to a point that did put me into a state of destruction. And I was at one of the locations that I was managing the fitness program for, and I was in between teaching three classes, and I was working with a trainer that we became really good friends. And I was on the lat pulldown bars symbolically... [laughs] Yeah. ...And he was behind me and in a friendly way, he decided to openly share "You know, Katie it's just such a shame that you look the way you do. Because you're so good at what you do." And... I'm speechless. [overlapping] ...and I was... same! I kinda was like... I dropped the weights, but it just kind of... it was the straw that broke the back right of like, "Right! Like, I should give into... I'm not comfortable in my body. I should really put more work into changing it." And how can you change teaching 20 classes a week? How can you change, you know, like watching what you, you know what you eat and being mindful about what you eat, other than going into a state of depletion and destruction? And so to say I wasn't always comfortable in my body. Yeah. And that takes on many different forms. And that took on a decade of battling bulimia, purging, overexercising, anorexia, like all of it put together to fit a mold to attempt to feel comfortable in my physical body.
Dr. Karen Nelson 10:06
Right. And how destructive that comment was. And it potentially was kind of a culmination...
Katie Haggerty 10:36
Yeah. [overlapping]
Dr. Karen Nelson 10:48
...of, you know... you kind of describe it as that was kind of the straw that broke... of all of these messages about only one body is acceptable. And, you know, here I am, I'm strong. And I'm, you know, working in this, you know, aspect of fitness, but it still was seen as maybe I'm not good enough.
Katie Haggerty 11:26
Yeah. And I will say too like, this message needs to be clear: it was my choice; my choice to say, "You're right." And it took so long to learn that lesson. And I wouldn't trade a day of it because it has gotten me to where I'm at to be able to meet people with the amount of empathy...
Dr. Karen Nelson 11:50
How did your eating disorder manifest in day-to-day life? You know, after that conversation and noticing that you've kind of started venturing into some more disordered patterns?
Katie Haggerty 12:02
Into a secret life?
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:04
Into a secret life. Oh, my gosh, that is it, isn't it?
Katie Haggerty 12:07
Yes.
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:07
It's all secret and it's shame. And it is... We drowned in it.
Katie Haggerty 12:12
Yes. And it became, I mean, think about my ultimate original purpose was to meet people to tell them, "You are good enough." I would tell people every class at the end of every class... I make them look in the mirror and tell them a compliment, like, "Tell yourself a compliment. You are beautiful, you are enough, you are strong." And what I started finding is when we would do that exercise in class, I would turn around and face them... so I didn't have to do it to myself.
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:44
Do you think you realized that you were that deep into eating disorder behavior? Like was there a knowing that I'm using these behaviors and I'm doing it because I want to transform my body, even if it's in a really destructive way?
Katie Haggerty 12:57
Yes.
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:57
Yes.
Katie Haggerty 12:58
Yes. The awareness is there. Why? Because we do it in hiding. If we don't do something in front of a crowd, we are hiding something and we know we are. It's a secret service that we are doing. And when you have to start making lies, right? You start timing out when you know people are going to be gone. You start timing out when you're going to do your binges. It's only you. That's what you face with this disorder. And you can feel it in your body, too, right? For me it was just a house of lies and constantly making excuses. And the amount of energy and thought that went into this disorder was remarkable. I had to go on a different level of even functioning.
Dr. Karen Nelson 13:58
Do you think people intentionally or unintentionally kind of fed your use of the eating disorder?
Katie Haggerty 14:05
Um, that's a great question. Yes, and I'll tell you how... through comments about the body, it was... that fed it, that kept it going. So yes, thank you. To answer your question very clearly is what maintained that was the validation.
Dr. Karen Nelson 14:25
Right.
Katie Haggerty 14:25
"You look great."
Dr. Karen Nelson 14:27
Right...
Katie Haggerty 14:28
"Wow! You've lost so much weight!" Like, "I should take your class if it makes me look like that."
Dr. Karen Nelson 14:33
Oh, just how destructive. Well and we often say in eating disorder recovery, and in working to find our natural body weight, if the way that I am maintaining my weight is through disordered behaviors, that is not your weight.
Katie Haggerty 14:51
Exactly.
Dr. Karen Nelson 14:52
Your body is built to find homeostasis, and as we are moving it and feeding it consistently and not using eating disorder behaviors, it will find a rhythm.
Katie Haggerty 15:04
Right.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:05
And if people are like, "Well, but... it's an okay weight," but if the way that I maintain that is through bulimic behaviors, binging or purging, severe restriction, that is not your natural body weight.
Katie Haggerty 15:18
Right.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:18
That is it.
Katie Haggerty 15:19
And please don't follow that plan.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:21
That's right. That's right. How... when you think about that moment when you potentially realized you needed help... tell me more about that.
Katie Haggerty 15:27
You know, to have someone in your life that is going to be with you unconditionally, that is my sister. And just knowing... also facing like, I could lose this person. I could lose her trust because I already have multiple times.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:51
Yeah.
Katie Haggerty 15:52
Was the biggest fear.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:55
Did you immediately get help then? I mean... No... ...I mean... good point. There's so many things you're bringing up... of the kind of collateral damage that happens when we engage in eating disorder behavior. Oftentimes people will share with me, "Well, this is my thing. This is my journey." Right? So okay, fine. I'm doing destructive behaviors but it doesn't impact anyone else. You had direct feedback from someone you cared deeply about, that it was directly impacting them as well.
Katie Haggerty 16:25
Mm hmm.
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:26
And the pain of that, I would imagine.
Katie Haggerty 16:29
Yeah. Yeah, it was. So I went through the actions of looking for help.
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:37
Okay.
Katie Haggerty 16:37
[laughs] And I think that's the...
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:39
Right.
Katie Haggerty 16:40
...That was my next step, because for me, we've always been taught "actions speak louder than words," but going through something just to look like you're going through something, I became really good at, right? Like I was a master at it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:53
Right.
Katie Haggerty 16:54
Throughout this process. So I did seek out therapy. And I will say my journey happened over probably three years...
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:05
Right.
Katie Haggerty 17:05
And I would interview therapists in a way to point and project back at them that they weren't capable of doing my job and I was fine.
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:16
Sure, okay.
Katie Haggerty 17:17
I'm fine.
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:18
"I'm fine." The eating disorder wants you to believe that".
Katie Haggerty 17:21
Yeah!
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:22
No Biggie.
Katie Haggerty 17:23
You're strong enough to handle this on your own. You know, there's a problem now, right? Awareness is key.
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:29
Right.
Katie Haggerty 17:30
But what's next? And I did start with that change, I think, Karen of like, even the mindset of knowing... knowing I wanted, you know, that break, that awakening. Knowing I did want to shift my behaviors. Knowing how destructive and tired I was. I was so tired.
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:52
Good point.
Katie Haggerty 17:54
And I couldn't keep it up. Your body can't keep it up. Just like you said, if you're out of a state of homeostasis, like your body is going to tell you no matter what. If you're not moving enough, or if you're moving it too much, it's gonna say, "woah."
Dr. Karen Nelson 18:05
Take me back to that moment as you started to realize, as your sister approaches you, maybe there is something here. Maybe there is some, you know, eating disorder behavior going on. What were some things you wished the people around you would have understood? Or would understand back in that moment?
Katie Haggerty 18:24
Great question! [laughs] To talk about it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 18:29
That's it.
Katie Haggerty 18:30
That's it. And I don't think people know how to talk about it, because they don't know what you're going through. It is looked at as, "Why are you doing that?" It's, it's such a superficial thing. Like, "get over it. Get over the, you know, like... you're fine. You look fine." But it's deeper than that. It is. its roots that have grown into your system.
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:02
What do you think some of those questions are? Or how someone might bring it up? Were there positive ways that people brought it up with you? Or maybe more negative ways? Or what to remember about that?
Katie Haggerty 19:14
If someone would have just asked, "What was it that brought you here?" I don't know. If I share that with a lot of other people. You can probably answer that better than I can.
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:28
Right.
Katie Haggerty 19:28
I know that moment on the lat pulldown bar. I will never forget it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:33
That's right.
Katie Haggerty 19:35
That if someone asked, "What was it that brought you here?" I could tell you that exact story, but I was never asked that, you know? So asking questions of more... of "How are you?" You know, like, "how are you feeling?"
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:51
Okay.
Katie Haggerty 19:52
Um, but you have to have a relationship with this person, too. And you also have to come with an attitude... not even attitude but just an aura and energy of support, rather than "I'm going to fix you." Because we don't want to be fixed.
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:14
Well that aspect of often avoiding things that feel uncomfortable, and the assumption that it might get better... but it often just gets bigger and worse.
Katie Haggerty 20:23
Mm hmm [overlaps]
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:24
And many families share that with me, that they may worry about a family member but they don't know how to bring it up. And so your experience was in that space of connection. Name it.
Katie Haggerty 20:37
Yeah. But I want to go back to the word that really... how my friends and family support me? Acceptance. They've accepted me in every state that I've been in, and they, I'm almost gonna cry. They haven't left my side. [voice cracks]
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:51
Oh, there it is.
Katie Haggerty 20:52
Because they see me for who I am. [voice cracking]
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:56
That's right.
Katie Haggerty 20:56
And they knew that if they didn't leave me [sniffs] that I'd get through it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:03
That's it. That's right. Recovery is possible.
Katie Haggerty 21:07
Yeah!
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:08
I say it all the time. But when we're in the depths of our eating disorder, we're alone and we feel really scared. And we just fear judgment. And we are just drowning in shame. Yeah. And what I hear you saying is, "My friends and family just accepted me. And they journeyed with me."
Katie Haggerty 21:30
Yeah!
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:30
Wow. Wow.
Katie Haggerty 21:32
Yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:33
That's it.
Katie Haggerty 21:35
That's it. And I mean, like you said, it's, it's lonely.
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:38
It is. It's so lonely.
Katie Haggerty 21:41
It's being able to talk about it and knowing that they were still gonna love me.
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:48
Often, again... returning to that idea of how do we talk about things that are hard? Oftentimes people want to just avoid them all over the place.
Katie Haggerty 21:58
Yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:59
And in that space of connection... healing happens in connection. I tell people that all the time. When someone is diagnosed with an eating disorder, we don't give them a diagnosis and send them away and say, "Good luck with that." We say, "Come in for treatment." Right? "I'm gonna sit on my couch. I won't make you lie down but you will sit on my couch and we will have a conversation."
Katie Haggerty 22:21
Yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 22:21
Right? And oftentimes I think people worry about... even fear of judgment from the therapist.
Katie Haggerty 22:27
Oh hands down, I did! Yeah, because they had, in my mind, an expected outcome for me.
Dr. Karen Nelson 22:37
I think it is important to note that your treatment was exclusively in the outpatient setting... meaning you would go in for appointments, like weekly or bi weekly appointments with your therapist, and that actually is how most of our patients here at Melrose are treated- in an outpatient setting. I think sometimes there's a misconception that eating disorder treatment happens in-patient or in the hospital. That is appropriate for some, but many of our patients, the majority of our patients receive outpatient treatment, just like you did.
Katie Haggerty 23:07
And I think that's important to bring up because part of going through the motions of seeking out therapy was to not have to. That's what I thought the perception was that I had to go to, like... that aggressive, you know, like treatment. And again, like you said, it works for, you know, some, but it was the fear of going into that. And I, I for me, did not want to do that, because... and I'll tell you why. Like I would have to take time off of my job and then I'd have to be honest to people about what I was going through. And to me, that scared me. Whether it was right for me or not.
Dr. Karen Nelson 23:51
For sure.
Katie Haggerty 23:51
Yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 23:52
The other piece that was highlighted in that therapy that you had with Barb was her identifying and helping you identify the brain space that the eating disorder takes up. And I often talk about that with my clients, that we have a finite amount, right? We don't have endless brain space, right? Like we can only focus on so many things at once. And so I often talk about it as almost like a pie chart, right?
Katie Haggerty 24:17
Yes.
Dr. Karen Nelson 24:18
Of like, hey, if 80% of your brain is taken up by, "How am I going to restrict? When am I going to purge? What foods am I going to avoid?" That only leaves me with so much energy to invest in all of the other things. Tell me how did the experience of going through eating disorder treatment change your relationship with your body?
Katie Haggerty 24:44
It put it into a perspective and this this takes a long time... It put it into a perspective of... again, energy... and finding a place that I felt comfortable. Now, mixed with Barb, comes a snowy Wednesday night in a class called "The Mix"... And it was one of my favorite classes of the week to teach. So I'm getting ready in every week I put together just the perfect playlist, right? And so I go to get started, and I always had like my eye on the clock, right? And it's like, start class at six. And I was saying hi to everybody. And then I go up, and I just make sure like, my mic is on, the music is on and I start turning the music down and I give my introduction. I'm like, "Why is it so hot in here? It's a snowy day," you know, like... there are no windows in that studio... but it's still like, you know, you can feel the coldness before the room starts heating up. And all of the sudden, I'm like, "Why am I sweating right now?" And I look down and I'm like, "I have a sweatshirt on." And then I'm like, "Okay, well, that's fine. I'll just, you know, take it off before I go teach." And I start the music and we're going to do the warm-up like, "Alright, everybody, here we go!" And I go to take my sweatshirt off and I look down... you know, as you're playing the sweatshirt away... and there's just a sports bra underneath there, and I don't wear sports bras to teach in because nobody needs to see my body. If I can't even look at my body, nobody needs to see my body because then I'm not gonna have 80 people in my class. They're gonna like revolt and be repulsed and run out the door, right? And so I'm like, "That's fine. I can teach in a sweatshirt." Well put 80 people in a room and it's a cardio class that has intervals in it and...
Dr. Karen Nelson 26:35
No.
Katie Haggerty 26:36
...you go all out. And so we're doing the warm up and I'm sweating profusely, and all of the sudden, I'm like, "I feel like I'm hyperventilating" because I'm in my head, right? And so now you're sweating more. And now you're like overthinking things, so your nervous system is on a high and now I'm just like, "I can't take this sweatshirt anymore!" Like either I need to like call class and be like, "I have an emergency." so we have to like fake like, "I gotta go." But how?
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:04
Right
Katie Haggerty 27:05
Like I don't have a phone in there. So in my mind, I'm playing out all these scenarios. The best one that came out was turn all the lights down as low as possible.
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:15
Okay.
Katie Haggerty 27:16
Go in the corner and subtly take your sweatshirt off. And as I walk over to the corner, I turn all the lights down and the crowd goes wild, they're like "Wooh! This is new!"
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:27
Oh boy.
Katie Haggerty 27:28
Like "Yeah, I like the lights down low!" And I go over in the corner and I'm still queuing them and they don't even think anything is up. And I go in the corner, I start peeling my sweatshirt off and all of a sudden, it's like it's happening. Like it's not... there's no going back. And I ripped my sweatshirt off and I had this Braveheart moment where I screamed out loud, "Freedom!"
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:53
Yes! [laughing]
Katie Haggerty 27:54
And my eyes were closed. I will never forget this moment either. And when I turned around, I thought I would have five people still standing there because they saw my body. Quite opposite.
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:08
Yeah.
Katie Haggerty 28:09
Nobody left.
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:10
Of course.
Katie Haggerty 28:10
And out of that was a ripple effect of other women ripping their shirts off screaming "Freedom!" at the same time and whipping their shirts around. That was one of my favorite classes, and also for my healing process... that what was in my head wasn't real.
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:30
Wow. As we move into the holiday season, why is this a good time to talk about body positivity?
Katie Haggerty 28:37
Because food is around us everywhere.
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:39
That's right.
Katie Haggerty 28:40
And marketing is around us everywhere. I love how, you know, like the body positivity... like you're starting to see plus-sized, you know, models...
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:50
Yes. [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 28:51
...Thrown in there. But it's still not the norm.
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:53
That's right.
Katie Haggerty 28:53
Um...
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:54
How do you feel about New Year's resolutions?
Katie Haggerty 28:57
Hate them.
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:57
Same.
Katie Haggerty 28:58
They set us up for failure every single time.
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:01
You know it.
Katie Haggerty 29:03
I look at New Year's as a calendar on the... or a day on the calendar.
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:07
That's right.
Katie Haggerty 29:07
And that's it. You know... it's been so signified... I think if we can also look at the reality of our world, it's been so signified by profit in business, to... especially by the fitness industry to tap in and make a dollar...
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:24
Good point.
Katie Haggerty 29:25
...To falsely advertise to people wait until January first. Now. The time is now.
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:33
That's right.
Katie Haggerty 29:33
If you're ready to make a move, and that's actually our tag at The Move For Good...
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:37
Right.
Katie Haggerty 29:37
...Make the move. If you're ready to make a move, do it today.
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:40
That's right. It is everything. Right? I literally was working with someone a couple years ago and we had a moment where she started listing all the conditions of when she was going to do things, right? "I'll be enough when... I'll invest when... I'll go out with my kids when..." We talked about, "Well, why can't it be today?" I remember saying to her, "You know, you are enough, period. Not you are enough 'if' or 'when.'" And that is transformative when we start to adjust the words that we use when we talk to ourselves in our own brain, that it's not that I'm enough "fill in the blank", it's I'm enough period. What messages do you wish you would have gotten as a young woman? Or even moving back into your teen years? What messages do you wish you would have gotten about body?
Katie Haggerty 30:35
I wish that there was just more acceptance around it. And I think we're still battling it to this day. Fatphobia and body dysmorphia is, I think, in my opinion, the silent discrimination that is... is not going to be addressed because here's the deal: We're all humans, and we all have a body. So it's not just some of us deal with it and some of us don't. We all have a body no matter where in this world we come from. If you are a human, you have a body. So you are going to deal with, in some... at some point in your life, someone saying that part of your body isn't up to par with them, or up to par with the way marketing has told us that it should be. So my 16-year-old self... Be aware of that and know that it has been produced long before you were even here. And and to listen to my dad sooner...
Dr. Karen Nelson 31:44
That's right. [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 31:44
...and not fight him even though I love, and I'll change that word to "debate."
Dr. Karen Nelson 31:49
Yeah.
Katie Haggerty 31:50
Thank you. [overlapping] Queen. [overlapping]
Dr. Karen Nelson 31:51
Nice. [overlapping] Good reframing. [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 31:54
...I'll change that because debating is good.
Dr. Karen Nelson 31:56
Yeah.
Katie Haggerty 31:57
Debating... getting someone to push against your opinion in a positive way is very healthy. But not to be right. But just to know that my body can be an inspiration for someone... to also know that they can too.
Dr. Karen Nelson 32:17
Is there anything I haven't asked to that you'd like to share?
Katie Haggerty 32:21
Yeah! I will say, keep this in mind. I'll share a story with you about a significant moment that, you know, this disorder can create a lot from the fear and guilt and shame, a lot of anger. And then in the recovery process comes along with that, you know, anger if something triggers you, you get angry at it. Just an awareness of meeting with a different mindset. So I was at... I got to a level of teaching at a world fitness conference, presenting, you know, education and choreography to instructors from all over the world. I will say I was an active participant of this conference for years. And I... the second year I was there I pointed to my friends who I was at the conference with and we were in an empty ballroom and I pointed the stage and I said someday I will be teaching on that stage.
Dr. Karen Nelson 33:24
Wow.
Katie Haggerty 33:25
And it got to that point. Yeah! And I taught at that conference for three years. And after one of my sessions I had over 200 people in my session, and you know, the music's cranking and and I'm just grateful for being there. And it was a dance session. And then afterwards, people line up to take their picture with you and to meet you. And this one participant came up to me and I was, you know, opening my arms up and you know, "Hi, nice to meet you." And the response back was, "You know what? That was disappointing. That I had to watch your repulsive body.
Dr. Karen Nelson 33:29
Whaaat? [Gasp]
Katie Haggerty 33:39
"...I can't believe this conference would allow someone like you on that stage.
Dr. Karen Nelson 34:16
Oh, my God.
Katie Haggerty 34:18
I mean... Imagine... I cant [overlapping] ...Like and then without like... a half a breath was, "But your choreography...
Dr. Karen Nelson 34:27
Oh my gosh... [overlapping]
Katie Haggerty 34:28
...is great." And immediately in that moment, I feel like my body is just filled with this like... almost like that ghost effect, like Whoopi Goldberg like jumps in me. [laughs]
Dr. Karen Nelson 34:39
Yes.
Katie Haggerty 34:40
And it's like... like you said, like the time pauses and I think this is what active therapy and work does. It's always working... I immediately got filled with rage. And like "I shouldn't be here." But I also... because of the work... I was able to see another side of the entire field. And that side of the field brought me back to that young girl pointing at the stage and going, "Someday... I will teach on that stage." And I met this participant with, "You want to be on stage, too. And you want to come and share with me that you really want to be on stage." And instead of anger, I met them with empathy. And I said to that participant, I said, "Hopefully, someday you will be on this stage too, and I look forward to maybe someday taking your session." And it was from a place of compassion. It wasn't snarky, that I think we could definitely meet people with or even just take us back where we can't... we can't find the words for that moment. We're like, "Okay" and then go into a spiral effect. But so profoundly if we can... if we can remind ourselves that and through the work... know that anger met with anger is just fuel to the fire; Versus meeting people with an understanding. And when you go through something... look at it as learning and gratitude that you can meet that much deeper another human being.
Dr. Karen Nelson 36:21
That's huge. I just want to thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. It has been an absolute delight to talk with you today.
Katie Haggerty 36:31
Same. Thank you so much, Karen.
Dr. Karen Nelson 36:35
[Piano music] That's it for today. Thanks for joining me. We've covered a lot, so I encourage you to let it settle and filter in. And as I tell my patients at the end of every session, "Take notice. Pay attention. And we'll take it as it comes." I'll talk to you next time. Melrose Heals: A Conversation About Eating Disorders was made possible by generous donations to the Park Nicollet Foundation. [music fades out].