On this episode, we'll be sharing a recovery story. Dr. Karen Nelson is joined by Amy Harms Hoad who will take us through her journey of diagnosis, treatment, and what it means to live in recovery.
On this episode, we'll be sharing a recovery story. Dr. Karen Nelson is joined by Amy Harms Hoad who will take us through her journey of diagnosis, treatment, and what it means to live in recovery.
For a transcript of this episode click here.
Dr. Karen Nelson 00:01
Eating Disorders thrive in secrecy and shame. It's when we create a safe space for honest conversation that will find the opportunity for healing. Hi there. I'm Dr. Karen Nelson, licensed clinical psychologist at Melrose center, welcoming you to Melrose heals, a conversation about eating disorders, a podcast designed to explore, discuss, and understand eating disorders and mental health. On today's episode, we'll be sharing a story of recovery. I'm joined by Amy Harms Hoad, who will take us through her journey of diagnosis, treatment, and what it means to live in recovery. Now, before I begin, I invite you to take a deep breath. And join me in this space. Welcome to the podcast. Amy. I'm just so happy to have you here with me today. Thank you. It's good to be here. Well, before we get started, I would love it if you could introduce yourself for our listeners.
Amy Harms Hoad 01:04
Sure. My name is Amy Harms Hoad. I am a college professor, and I'm here to talk with you about my recovery from binge eating disorder.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:13
Just some full disclosure, I have the joy of being Amy's therapist, let's back up and talk about some history Amy, let's maybe explore kind of thinking about where the eating disorder may have began, what do you remember about that?
Amy Harms Hoad 01:30
It's always been in my family, being thin is very, very, very important. And that's something I've never been. And as a child, you know, I didn't quite understand it, obviously, because I was a kid, but my parents, especially my mom, are not super affectionate people. And we don't express emotions in our family. So for me, it was food. You know, and food my mom always made sure we had, you know, cookies and cakes and all kinds of good things to eat. And so it was from a very young age, I would always turn to food. And I think that sort of just conditioned me to not learn to handle my emotions and not learn to feel my feelings and instead just to eat, and to comfort myself. And it progressively got worse, I can remember in high school. I tried unsuccessfully, but I would try not to turn to food, but then I would find myself you know, doing the behavior, sneaking the food, lying about what I was eating, things like that. And, and then once I went to college, you know that I was by myself, I didn't, I wasn't accountable to anyone. So I could kind of do really dumb things like not eat all day, and then at night, you know, order that pizza and eat the whole thing in like 20 minutes type thing. So it just grew out of that.
Dr. Karen Nelson 03:25
I love how you kind of explaining this, this progression and kind of evolution, right? You and I have spent a lot of time talking about the function of the eating, and how eating became a way to kind of nurture feelings and comfort feelings numb out from feelings. And that's really what I hear you talking about, Does that resonate for you?
Amy Harms Hoad 03:52
Definitely. And, truth be told, it makes me really sad that I spent so much of my life you know, just the feelings would be I'm a pretty emotional person, as you know. And, I'm pretty self aware. So the feelings would be right on the edge but so I was aware of them. But I also knew that if I started to feel them it was going to be very uncomfortable and very painful. And so then I would just binge and I mean now it's been it's been a while since since I've really even wanted to binge
Dr. Karen Nelson 04:31
Well, I think that it is important to name, you know, that eating disorders. You know, we talk about it a lot on the podcast, you and I've talked about it a lot in individual therapy, eating disorders show up on the outside there this outside behavior that is attempting to manage some distress or emotion or feeling on the inside. And sometimes that comes through, you know restriction And then other times, it can also come through the form of binging or feeling out of control with food. And it really feels like you started to notice, even from a really young age, that some feelings weren't allowed to be talked about, or we didn't talk about emotion. So let's talk about that place of kind of what the eating disorder behaviors looked like for you. And so to, you know, help our listeners understand that the eating disorder behaviors that showed up most frequently for you were binge behavior, and then restrict behavior. Were those the two behaviors that were most frequent for you, Amy.
Amy Harms Hoad 05:41
Yeah, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily say I was purposefully restricting, I would just be busy. And, and not eat. Because in, the longer you do it, the more you start to feel like, wow, there's so much shame involved. And because you are so ashamed of it, you just want to be alone. So for me, I had to restrict during the day because I was with people, you know, my family was around, or I was at school, and my coworkers were there, or I was in class or whatever. And I, I couldn't comfortably eat in front of other people. So I wouldn't eat all day. And then when I would get alone, whether it was in my car, or in my office or at home, you know, then would be when I would binge? Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Karen Nelson 06:37
So this almost kind of unintentional restriction would maybe happen where because I preferred to eat alone or in secret. And that actually is a symptom of people who are struggling with binge eating disorder, this preference to eat in secret or in private, right.
Amy Harms Hoad 06:57
And you know, now that I say it, I can see that it's clearly a sickness. But boy, when you're in the heat of the moment, you just, you just want the comfort, you don't care about the ramification, you just want that comfort. It became my norm. It really did. Everything focused around my weight, like everything, any accomplishments, I had any struggles I had any moments of joy and the moments of sadness, it just all became, it was always centered around my weight. And I never really believed that I would change. You know, not believing yourself that really, that does wear on a person, it really wears on you. And I tried so hard to keep up that front. It's exhausting.
Dr. Karen Nelson 07:46
Well, it really speaks to the difference between changing behavior versus changing thinking. Right? Changing, belief, changing intuition. You know, when I think about eating disorder, healing in treatment and recovery, absolutely, we talk about the behavior. But most importantly, we talk about your beliefs, your thoughts, your perception of who I am, and my worth, and how I show up in this world. If I don't attack, and, you know, push and explore what those that thinking is, I might feel real stuck. And I might just repeat the same pattern again and again.
Amy Harms Hoad 08:28
Yes, I was just gonna say it. I would just go back to what I knew, you know? And yeah, because I never, I never tried to figure out the thinking piece. I didn't know how.
Dr. Karen Nelson 08:42
Reflecting back, what do you remember about loved ones about how they might have talked to you about that?
Amy Harms Hoad 08:50
You know, are friends and family supposed to talk to you about that? Because mine never did. You know, my mind never brought it up. And I like to believe it's because I was hiding it so well. I worked so hard at that facade. Like that was just that was my persona for many, many, many years. I didn't know who I was, I didn't know what I liked. I didn't know what I was supposed to be feeling. I mean, I just, I was in that space of no one can know how gross I am. I would talk about it with my friends. My sister, some of my girlfriends, my husband, obviously unfortunately, he got the brunt of a lot. I would talk about how I was unhappy. You know, being so overweight and how I was, you know, disgusted by my eating habits, things of that nature. But nobody ever approached me and said you know what's going on? I'm concerned about you.
Dr. Karen Nelson 10:02
Do you wish that that would have been? I mean, now kind of tell me, like, tell me about that.
Amy Harms Hoad 10:07
This is interesting, because I have thought about this a lot over the years. That if somebody would have just come to me and, and said, you know, this is what I'm seeing, what I'm noticing, and I'm worried about you, but and you know, and then part of me thinks like, like my sister, who knows me so well. Part of the reason maybe she didn't ever say anything to me is because she knew how hard I was on myself about it. And she didn't want to make it worse. So I don't want to I don't want it to sound like I don't have friends and family that care about me because I do. But I think, I think there's a little bit of both.
Dr. Karen Nelson 10:54
Well, Amy, let's maybe transition and talk a little bit about that kind of decision or turning point, when you did decide to seek out treatment. And kind of what that kind of transition or turning point was, you know, we were talking about struggling and experiencing, you know, eating disorder symptoms kind of off and on kind of throughout adulthood and working so hard to keep it hidden and secret, and just really suffering with that space of a lot of negativity and self judgment. Tell us about that turning point when you decided to explore treatment for an eating disorder.
Amy Harms Hoad 11:35
You know, I have been I also have depression. So I have been in counseling and therapy for a long time. 20 plus years.
Dr. Karen Nelson 11:43
Yeah. Okay, yes. I love it. What a beautiful point, Amy. I had been in therapy for depression or anxiety, how often so many of my patients share. I have literally been in therapy but I have never talked about this piece. You nailed it.
Amy Harms Hoad 12:09
Yes. That's what I was gonna say I, I never talked. I mean, I would talk about my weight, and how I was unhappy with it. But I never talked about the way I was eating. And I never talked about that shame with me one point. So it was actually my doctor that mentioned, you know, Melrose and I didn't? No offense to you, Karen. I didn't want to go with that. I hope you hear that from others. I really didn't want to do this.
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:48
But that is beautiful. I'm so glad you named that. That there. Again. There's no shame in that. It's not right, that I don't want to talk about this thing that feels uncomfortable and scary. Will tell our listeners, what was that like to go through the initial assessment? What was that like for you? What do you remember?
Amy Harms Hoad 13:10
I remember when you told me at the end of that initial assessment, you were like, well, you definitely have mild binge eating disorder. And I just remember being like, not happy. Like, I was like, who does? she think she is? Yeah, right. Like God.
Dr. Karen Nelson 13:32
So again, that place. I mean, what a beautiful description of how sometimes even you know, receiving the diagnosis can maybe even add to shame or confusion, or internal judgment of like, oh, my gosh, I do have this thing.
Amy Harms Hoad 13:50
Yeah. I mean, like, I, it's like, it's one thing for me to think I'm this giant loser. But now a professional is basically saying it too. I was like, dang. Like I was, yeah, it was not fun. Not fun at all. And I think it wasn't until I started working with both of you for a little bit, you know, maybe a month or two months that I started to realize, maybe I'm not as bad as I think I am. Because there are a lot of these people are talking like, this is what they do all day every day. So there are a lot of people out there who are like me, and I can remember asking you that, like do other people think this or do other people say this? And you would always be like yes, I hear this a lot. And I'm like, wow, I thought I was the only That's right. Which is so you know how narcissistic of me, but not at all I did just I was so in my own head. And I didn't realize that other people struggled.
Dr. Karen Nelson 14:51
Absolutely. And, you know, I I think it's so important to acknowledge that piece of how You know, when we're struggling with, you know, certain mental health issues, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, how not only do they keep us, you know, stuck, but they often kind of rob us of perspective, where many, many people share with me, I felt so alone in my thinking, and to be in conversation with your therapist with your dietician, you know, maybe, if you if you have a medical doctor on your team, or occupational therapist, right, to hear, like, oh, other people also struggle with this.
Amy Harms Hoad 15:37
To know that other people suffer the same way I do. And also, you know, it takes a lot of energy to pretend that you're fine. And to pretend like you don't care and like it doesn't bother you, and it becomes your life. And then you don't have room for other things like joy, spending time with, like your kids and your husband and like, laughing and having fun. It just, it just really started to suck the life out of me.
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:15
Well, and I think too, I love it, that you are able to, you know, acknowledge that there was a function to the eating disorder, right? There's nothing wrong with you. It's that I'm doing this thing to try and help myself feel better. But it actually is just creating more distress in chaos. And for us, you know, we talked a lot about that I remember, right? Not that I'm wrong or bad. Because I'm engaging in this disorder. It's like, well, of course, because I'm just actually trying to manage all of this, these overwhelming feelings. And maybe there's a different way to do it. Let's actually talk a little bit about, you know, kind of course of treatment. The recommended treatment for people who are currently diagnosed with binge eating disorder through Melrose is they will be offered a group and like you said, you were kind of in that transition space, right? Where we were kind of trying to figure out how to do life during COVID. Thankfully, though, all of the the messaging that would have been provided through the group, you were able to receive that through your individual appointments with myself and Allison. And so really, again, just, you know, a lot of our work was talking about, yes, eating. But far more than that, right, that we talked about feeling and emotion and family and sense of self, right. I mean, were any of those parts kind of, you know, unexpected as you moved into eating disorder treatment.
Amy Harms Hoad 17:49
It like I said, I've been in therapy a long time off and on with numerous therapists. So what really surprised me was how much we did not talk about food. Yes, because I really thought that's what we're going to do. I'm like, okay, she's the eating disorder lady. So we are going to talk about food. And we, we really hardly ever talked about food. And that did surprise me. I can remember what surprised me. And I feel, I don't know, maybe it's just because I didn't know what a dietitian does. But I really thought she was gonna like, show me, okay, at every meal, you have one carb, one protein, whatever. And I don't think she ever said the word carb or protein the whole time I worked with her. And, in fact, I can remember my, like, my initial goals that I was working on, were to, like, eat three meals a day, eat two snacks, if I needed, you know, like, it was just so simple with her. And, and I just remember being like, this cannot be this cannot be right.
Dr. Karen Nelson 18:53
But I love it, how you talk about your perception of what it was gonna be like to be an eating disorder treatment was maybe to be told, Well, you have to get this many fruits and this many veggies. And then to be like, actually, like, how about you just feed your body, right? Food can be food. Well, Amy, I would love it if you could share with us. Any skills that you learned as you were moving through treatment that ended up being helpful in your recovery from an eating disorder?
Amy Harms Hoad 19:22
Well, feeling feelings for sure. And as you always like to say, well just be curious.
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:30
Notice, in fact, it's my two favorite things to say.
Amy Harms Hoad 19:34
Do you know how often I will say that to myself, “well, that's, that's curious.” So definitely. Like, feeling feelings. I remember one time you told me that. And this was towards the beginning. You told me that emotions were like waves that they come and go and that they never stay and that you have to just if you let them come, and then feel them and let them they will go. But then there were also just little things I'm noticing, when something didn't feel right, if I had a negative thought, especially if it was about myself, instead of like coming down on myself, you really have always encouraged me to sort of notice it and be curious about it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:25
So just lots of taking the time to maybe slow down and be a little bit aware or curious in a way that I might not have before. And I love how you point out the kind of the slide of busyness, right, because, yeah, man are there demands for our time and attention, right? We're both moms. We're both career women, right? And I think that that gave us the space to really explore a lot about what are the messages we get about, you know, am I a better mom, if I kind of sacrifice all of that I need to care for others? Like, no wonder we feel really confused. If that's some of the messaging that we might receive. Amy, do you consider yourself recovered from an eating disorder? million dollar question.
Amy Harms Hoad 21:16
That's such a good question. That is such a good question. I still really struggle with that word recovery. Because back to that all or none thinking that, to me, sounds like somebody who has their shit together all the time, and is, you know, doing really well. And, and that's not me. You know, I'm a, I'm a hot mess most days, and I'm fine with that. You know, like, I, I have I have my life works for me. And it's okay. But I don't know that the idea of being in recovery just sounds very, very, you know, posh, and I just don't seem that and myself. I feel like I'm managing my eating behaviors. way to describe it. And yeah, yeah. And that's good enough for me. So. So yeah, I mean, I guess maybe between you and me and the world of this podcast, I might say I'm in recovery. But even then I'm hesitant to say,
Dr. Karen Nelson 22:18
Absolutely. I think you bring up a really good point about, again, that perception that recovery needs to look perfect. And that, you know, actually we talk about recovery. And that it is it makes sense. Especially if I've struggled with an eating disorder in the past that I may, you know, continue to have thoughts about it, or I may even have a breakthrough behavior where I may use a symptom, but it is really recovery is about how quickly I can then return to recovery like behaviors.
Amy Harms Hoad 22:53
Right. Right. And that's, that's a good point. And that's something I should probably write down in a few spots and put on post it notes, because, and, I mean, but doesn't it doesn't it just make sense that for somebody who has eating disordered thinking, of course, they are going to think that recovery is perfect, because to me eating was either perfect, or it was terrible, like there was no in between. And so that's why I think of recovery too. And, and now that I know about recovery, eating is not there are plenty of days when I go over a calorie allotment if I were to have one or whatever, you know, there are plenty of days where I eat a food where someone might say, Ooh, that's bad for you. I'm not gonna say that, but somebody else might. But that doesn't mean that the next day I, you know, feel bad about it, or that it sends me into that spiral. So maybe, maybe that's what my recovery is. I can break that cycle. Wow, I can break that cycle.
Dr. Karen Nelson 23:57
Yeah, just feel so so important that you name it that way. I mean, I wish people could see me. I'm giving you a thumbs up and high fives and I know just so deeply, deeply proud of you. And like one to have watched your evolution, pain and recovery.
Amy Harms Hoad 24:16
I mean, you know when as I say it, I feel pretty darn proud to parent like me I'm just I remember telling you once last summer I I started running and not perfectly but for whatever reason I'm fine with that. But, and I there's this park I go to and this trail that I go around and it's beautiful and I just love it and somewhere about halfway around. It's a three mile trail. I remember this feeling came to me of the lifting the weight of of this disordered thinking is better than losing any amount of hope. weighed, like physical weight that somebody could ever could like, freeing my mind. And just being able to wake up in the morning and NOT. NOT think God, I'm so gross. Like, that is huge, you know that that is really, really huge. And it's, yeah, I'm pretty proud of myself too.
Dr. Karen Nelson 25:22
Just like, such a transformation. And you did that. Like you, like you get to own all of that work. And all the feeling that you were able to tolerate, you got to that place of freedom.
Amy Harms Hoad 25:39
And you know, it's still a struggle, like, there are days. Just this week, actually, I made it, I go to the gym, and I do this extra this class, and I love it. And yesterday, I had some extra time before the class started. So I went and I was walking on the treadmill. And as I was walking, I was like, This just feels so easy, you know. And like, I was just walking on the treadmill, I had the, like, the elevation up a little bit, and I was zipping along and I'm like, well, this doesn't even feel hard. And when I got home, I did the class. And when I got home last night, I was like, feels really good to be proud of my body and of what I just did, and and then, like feeling uncomfortable. That I feel good, right? Yeah. So then I'm like, well, now what do I do? You know, I don't know how to, I don't know how to feel good. Like, that's, that's very foreign. And so yeah, so working through that, and it doesn't go away. You know, like you. I'm always working on processing my feelings. But it's, it's like just knowing that I can do it. I love it is so big to me. Yeah, it just, it's so huge. And it's so it's just comforting. Yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:06
Well, I love that you bring up, you know, sometimes part of our work in therapy is, you know, kind of naming and being able to tolerate the hard, right, that the sadness, the negativity, the discomfort, the maybe hard feelings. But actually, sometimes the work also is tolerating the joy, and the good. And the accomplishment and the validation. Sometimes that can feel just as foreign.
Amy Harms Hoad 27:36
Way more foreign than the negative for me. You know, and in my family, if you were proud of yourself, you were bragging. And it was a it was bad. And so I never knew what it felt like to be proud of myself. And I can remember even saying to you, well, I sound like I've done all that much in my life. And you were like, what, and you started listing my accomplishments? And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess like, like, it was no big deal. And you were like, that is a big deal. And so yes, even it's uncomfortable for me to be happy. Like, I know how silly, right? But like a real happiness, not like the fake one. Not the one that I'm putting on so that nobody else is uncomfortable. But the one that like is true. It is hard. And it's hard to find people who acknowledge that truth, you know? So, it's definitely been a learning experience. And sometimes I do feel like my feel that way on my own. Yes, you do. Like, I don't have anybody to share it with. But you know what, it’s okay.
Dr. Karen Nelson 28:49
You know, they're likely our listeners right now who are working on their own recovery and any messages you'd like to share with them, Amy?
Amy Harms Hoad 29:03
You know, it's hard, but it is so worth it. And you are worth it. I just, I just wish people could realize that this is not this is not the way your life has to be, you know, and no one should should go through that kind of self loathing and self destruction every day. And so if you are working on your recovery, keep going. It's it gets better every day, like it really does. And yes, you will have hard days you will have hard moments. But, you know, just pause, take a step back and be curious about what’s going on. Yeah, exactly like, just notice. That's interesting. Yeah, I just, I just wish people could try, give themselves the chance to, to find something better because it's so worth it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 30:14
That's it. So worth it. I love it. Well, I cannot thank you enough. This conversation just has been an absolute delight. Thank you so much, Amy.
Amy Harms Hoad 30:23
Thank you. Thank you and thank you Melrose center. Couldn't have done it without you.
Dr. Karen Nelson 30:30
That's it for today. Thanks for joining me, we've covered a lot. So I encourage you to let it settle and filter in. And as I tell my patients at the end of every session, take notice. Pay attention, and we'll take it as it comes. I'll talk to you next time. Melrose heels a conversation about eating disorders was made possible by generous donations to the Park Nicollet Foundation