On this episode, Dr. Karen Nelson is joined by Amy Riesenberg MDiv, the inter-faith chaplain at Melrose. Amy and Karen will discuss how for some people recovering from an eating disorder, a spiritual practice can be both healing and comforting.
Click here for a transcript of this episode.
Dr. Karen Nelson 00:01
Eating Disorders thrive in secrecy and shame. It's when we create a safe space for honest conversation that we'll find the opportunity for healing. Hi there. I'm Dr. Karen Nelson, licensed clinical psychologist at Melrose Center, welcoming you to Melrose Heals, a conversation about eating disorders, the podcast designed to explore, discuss and understand eating disorders and mental health. On today's episode, I'm joined by Amy Riesenberg, Master of Divinity. Amy is our interfaith chaplain here at Melrose. She is passionate about her work, and collaborating with people from all types of beliefs and religions and being a source of support during their healing journey. For those recovering from an eating disorder, a spiritual practice can be both healing and comforting. Now, before I begin, I invite you to take a deep breath and join me in this space. Welcome to the podcast. Amy, I'm so excited to have you with me here today.
Amy Riesenberg 01:07
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:08
Well, before we get started, I would love it if you could introduce yourself and tell us about your role here at Melrose.
Amy Riesenberg 01:15
My name is Amy Riesenberg. I am the staff chaplain at Melrose Center in St. Louis Park, Minnesota, and I'm also the staff chaplain at Methodist Hospital in the emergency room in St. Louis Park, Minnesota.
Dr. Karen Nelson 01:28
I'm excited to learn more about how you help patients with their eating disorder recovery by really supporting their spirituality. And so tell me about your journey to become a chaplain tell me how that started.
Amy Riesenberg 01:43
I was feeling pretty lost again in in my call. I I was ordained as an interfaith minister and started marrying couples and that was really fun, but there was something that seemed to be missing. And I went out and looked at United Seminaries website one day and they had this M Div this Master of Divinity emphasis for interfaith chaplaincy. And of course, I saw that word interfaith. To me interfaith means very simply, we all get a path in our life. And we're all going home. And each of our paths are going to look a little bit different.
Dr. Karen Nelson 02:22
For those that might not know, can you help us understand what does it mean to be a chaplain?
Amy Riesenberg 02:28
Oh, absolutely. I think that you could have 20 chaplains in here and they would tell you something just a little bit different. One of my guiding principles on being a chaplain is something that Carl Jung said about being a psychotherapist. Chaplains are not psychotherapists.
Dr. Karen Nelson 02:46
Yes.
Amy Riesenberg 02:46
Just want to put that out there. But he said, and I mess up this quote all the time, he basically said, to master all of the theories, and understand all of the research. But when you are with a human being just be a human being.
Dr. Karen Nelson 03:05
Wow.
Amy Riesenberg 03:06
So that means in happy times, in sad times, in painful times, in anxious times, to be a calm and supportive, empathetic presence that isn't attempting to move somebody through an emotion or a time or a pain. But just someone who comes and is accepting of what is right now. And not flinching.
Dr. Karen Nelson 03:33
That's right, that feels really powerful to kind of sit in the pain sometimes or the or the discomfort. Does that resonate?
Amy Riesenberg 03:42
Yes, absolutely. Pain and discomfort...so often, when we are in pain, we hear things like, oh, this, this will make you stronger. Or a story, you know, somebody shares a story about themselves or there's ways that the listener will keep themselves at arm's arm's length from the pain. So chaplains move toward the pain. Many of us have had our own pain, and we've worked through it. There's a gentleman named Henri Nouwen who has written a lot of books on being a chaplain, and he talks about the metaphor of the wounded healer. So the wounded healer is basically someone who has been through the fire and know that the fire does not have to destroy us. So we will often walk through that fire with somebody not to make them go a certain direction. But just let them know that that fire is not going to burn them.
Dr. Karen Nelson 04:45
And a lot of my patients share with me just the power of presence, as I heard you mention that, that sometimes I don't need someone to say anything special or say the right thing, even. I sometimes just need to sit in this same room and know that you're with me.
Amy Riesenberg 05:01
You know, absolutely. One of the most powerful things I've ever said to somebody is, yeah, this really sucks doesn't it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 05:12
Right! Right.
Amy Riesenberg 05:13
I can see that you are hurting.
Dr. Karen Nelson 05:16
That's it.
Amy Riesenberg 05:17
I can see and hear that you are angry. And to believe it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 05:22
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 05:23
That that is true for them. And it can be true for me too for a while.
Dr. Karen Nelson 05:27
I love that. What does being spiritual mean to you?
Amy Riesenberg 05:31
Oh, that's a great question. So this is the way I introduce myself to patients who are at Melrose that I'm meeting for the first time. I tell them that if you look at Melrose as a place of healing, mind, body and spirit, you'll notice that on your care team, most of your care team is focused on mind or body. You've got your mind people: therapists, mental health professionals. You've got your body people: PT, OT, nutritionists, dieticians. And so I get to be chaplain at Melrose, to focus on the spirit. And in the context of Melrose, spirituality is simply how we connect to something bigger than ourselves. So for a lot of people, that is God, and a religion. For other people, it's culture, ancestry, nature, friends and family, science, knowledge, wisdom, all sorts of different ways that we connect to something bigger than ourselves. That place of connection is where we ask our big, existential questions. Why me? Why did this happen to me? Why do bad things happen to good people? Where do we go when we die? What's real, what's important? Because as human beings, we are meaning makers, we cannot, that is just part of our brains. We are pattern lookers, and we are meaning makers. And that's what we have to do. So spirituality is a place we go to make meaning in our lives, and also to find hope for the present. And the future.
Dr. Karen Nelson 07:28
That is so powerful. I absolutely love that description. Tell me how you approach spirituality with people in a healthcare setting.
Amy Riesenberg 07:37
I really focus on meaning and hope. And letting people understand that what their path is, is ultimately important. Now, I under - I know that theologically, my interfaith spirituality of like, we're all on a path and we're all going home doesn't work with everybody, really just opening up the conversation. I'll usually ask people do you have a faith tradition, that's important to you? The things what we're really afraid of, I think the most in human beings is being alone. Like not, I mean, we can be alone in our houses, or in our cars, but alone, in that we don't belong to a family. We don't belong to a friend group, or that no one is going to understand me. So when I meet somebody who's in fear, it is simply to draw near to them, and to be close to them. And I think that's really the definition of empathy. There's a great cartoon I saw a while ago about somebody who had fallen in a hole. And they were just tired of people walking by the hole, telling them how to get out. And then a friend came by and got in the hole with that person. To trust that I know how to get out of this hole. But this person isn't ready to get out of the hole yet.
Dr. Karen Nelson 09:02
Absolutely.
Amy Riesenberg 09:03
But I'm not going to leave you alone.
Dr. Karen Nelson 09:05
I'm not going to leave you alone. I mean, that that piece of as you say the word belonging, that just absolutely resonates. And I talk about that all the time with my patients, you know that I really am just looking for a place to fit. And am I understood, do people get me do they hear my story? Like the deep yearning that we have as humans to be heard and understood?
Amy Riesenberg 09:29
Absolutely. Mental illness will often convince us that that's not possible that we are alone. No one will understand us. No one will listen to us. No one will believe us.
Dr. Karen Nelson 09:43
Right? That the that place keeps us so separate and isolated. And it really sounds like your work as a chaplain is to continue to join them to be with them to sit with them in that and yeah, just provide that space of empathy.
Amy Riesenberg 10:01
Absolutely. There's a lot of people who don't even know what that feels like.
Dr. Karen Nelson 10:04
Isn't that the truth?
Amy Riesenberg 10:06
And so, but that's normal.
Dr. Karen Nelson 10:08
Yeah.
Amy Riesenberg 10:09
So if if I can just be that just for five minutes, I see you, I hear you.
Dr. Karen Nelson 10:15
It often becomes, I talk a lot in therapy about, you know, the therapy experience also sounds very similar to the experience, you know, sitting with a chaplain, it can feel corrective, it can feel healing, literally just being in a room with someone who doesn't have an agenda isn't judging me to just be present with that? Why is it important when someone is recovering from an eating disorder to have the component of spiritual care?
Amy Riesenberg 10:44
I think it's important because we just shouldn't leave out this idea that we need to be connected to something bigger than ourselves. So mind and body are very well, they're mortal. They're this life. There are lots of ways to understand what the Spirit is, you can think of the Spirit as the thing that goes on to heaven, you could think of the Spirit that goes into the the rounds of energy or source. But when we think about how our bodies and minds are run, it's run by electricity, there's an energy that runs our brains and hearts. And scientifically, we know, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it just is. So it has to go somewhere. And so I like to think of the Spirit as the eternal part of ourselves, the part that's not really connected to time and space, so much. The part that understands we came from somewhere, and we're going somewhere, and we're having experiences here and now, but they're not permanent. They are temporary experiences. So the spirit has something to tell the mind and the body. So if you don't mind, I'd love to share a metaphor.
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:05
I would love it. I would love it.
Amy Riesenberg 12:06
Have you ever been in a class or a meeting where somebody won't shut the F up?
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:13
Yes, right. I have. Yeah, right.
Amy Riesenberg 12:16
We all have. And it's annoying.
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:18
Right.
Amy Riesenberg 12:18
Especially when the moderator or the leader is letting that person continue to talk shut everybody down. They're not doing a really good job of being a moderator. Right?
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:30
Right.
Amy Riesenberg 12:30
And, and those other voices can't get a word in edgewise. So in this metaphor, in this meeting, we have mind, body, and spirit. And mind won't stop talking. Telling everybody how they're supposed to feel. And that is where the eating disorder lives.
Dr. Karen Nelson 12:53
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 12:54
And it isn't going to let the body say what it needs. And it isn't going to tell it isn't gonna let the spirit say what's important right now. It's going to just keep talking. So it's the moderators job-- us to be able to say, mind. Thank you. Thank you so much for all that you do. And all that you have said. Thank you for keeping me safe. I appreciate that. But now, it's time to hear from Body. Body. What do you need right now? Spirit? What do you have to say?
Dr. Karen Nelson 13:36
I love that.
Amy Riesenberg 13:37
The the the main idea here is to have a collaboration. Remember those group projects in school?
Dr. Karen Nelson 13:43
That's-- I hated them but yes.
Amy Riesenberg 13:44
I know. Right? And boy does mind hate...
Dr. Karen Nelson 13:48
Of course.
Amy Riesenberg 13:50
But the deal is if we can't quiet the mind and let the body and spirit have a word.
Dr. Karen Nelson 13:55
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 13:56
That is where we lose balance. So we have to have those voices. And for many of us, it is really difficult to coax those voices out after they've been browbeaten for so long. One of the exercises I have some of my patients do and I'm sure those listening, have heard of gratitude journals. Write down three things that you're grateful for today. What I ask patients to do is to ask the mind, what their what the mind is grateful for and then ask the mind to be quiet. And because now we're going to ask the body, what are you grateful for today? And give each mind body and spirit a chance to answer one of those three.
Dr. Karen Nelson 14:43
That is so profound, really, I mean, I absolutely love it. Because I think oftentimes, even in therapy, it can be about the logic, the talking right which is important to to understand the facts of an eating disorder and the risks of an eating disorder. But we say it all the time eating disorders are not about food. It's about, it's about my emotions, it's about my attempt to cope. And listening to that other part of me that might be hurting.
Amy Riesenberg 15:12
Yeah. And with, with patients that I do this, use this metaphor with, I'm always amazed what the body has to say the body doesn't have a lot of words, but the body will just go, you know, when you ask what it's grateful for, it will go rest.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:27
Right.
Amy Riesenberg 15:27
Food.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:28
Yes, the basics.
Amy Riesenberg 15:30
Yeah. And the Spirit tends to be even quieter. But just to allow the space to ask the mind to let those voices in. It's a, it's a synergistic idea that you can get all of those parts of you working together.
Dr. Karen Nelson 15:52
So a lot of that kind of internal talk can really impact us, you know, our search for meaning. What does this mean? Who am I, you know, those big questions because can really impact us. And what I hear you saying is giving giving someone a space to explore it.
Amy Riesenberg 16:08
That's, that's the great thing about spirituality. It doesn't have to be nailed down. It doesn't have to be either or, it's, it's a whole lot of and, and, and, and.
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:18
Beautiful.
Amy Riesenberg 16:19
And I like to say to people, I have a spiritual path, but I don't expect to see anybody on it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:26
Nah. It's yours.
Amy Riesenberg 16:27
It's weird, mines weird you know, it would be weird for you. But what's yours?
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:32
I love that.
Amy Riesenberg 16:32
And where are you now? And what's the next garden stone in front of you? You know, where are we going to step next?
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:40
Do you have to be spiritual to see a chaplain? Oh, what if...what if I'm agnostic? Or what if I'm an atheist?
Amy Riesenberg 16:49
I love the word agnostic.
Dr. Karen Nelson 16:52
Tell me!
Amy Riesenberg 16:52
When people say to me why I don't need a chaplain. I'm agnostic. The first thing I say is, me too. Because I've been to seminary twice. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know. What's the capital T truth. I, I feel like it's this. And I live it out in my particular way. But I don't know. And so when people say agnostic to me, or or atheist, because it just, you know, spirituality has never made sense. Or I, you know, I say, do you, what do you believe? And I hear I don't know, I love to say, Oh, you just said my first-- my three favorite words.
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:37
That's Right. I don't know.
Amy Riesenberg 17:38
I don't know. And so we talk about I don't know.
Dr. Karen Nelson 17:42
Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Well, I family members will often, you know, share with me, I get so mad because my kids say they don't know. And I said have you ever considered they might not know? Like you said it can be a very real valid answer.
Amy Riesenberg 17:56
It's a very valid answer. And the greatest thing about I don't know. And of course, I understand we're not on video. But when you say I don't know, you often put your hands out.
Dr. Karen Nelson 18:05
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 18:06
To show your empty hands and shrug I don't know. But these empty hands are the hands of receiving.
Dr. Karen Nelson 18:14
Oh, wow.
Amy Riesenberg 18:15
If we have our hands full of old ideas or ideas that don't fit. We're just carrying those around. How are we going to find what's meaningful for us. So these empty, I don't know hands are sacred. If something lands in your hand, an idea, a song, a poem, a leaf, a raindrop. And it resonates with you. It rings your inner gong.
Dr. Karen Nelson 18:42
Yeah.
Amy Riesenberg 18:43
I say keep it and explore it more. If something lands in your hand and it makes you feel shame, and cold and alone. Then if you need pastoral permission to put that down, you've got it. Put that down. It's not for you. So I just wrote a reflection recently about trees. Did you know that in the fall, the reason why leaves turn color, yellow, brown, red, orange, is because the tree sucks up all of the chlorophyll out of the leaves in order to survive the winter.
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:18
Wow.
Amy Riesenberg 19:19
I'm sure we all learned that in third grade, yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:21
Probably third or fourth, you got it.
Amy Riesenberg 19:23
In one ear out the other
Dr. Karen Nelson 19:24
That's right
Amy Riesenberg 19:24
Now here I am in my late 40s learning about how trees survived the winter. Once they've sucked all the chlorophyll out, they let those leaves go. What if the tree behaved like humans and tried to hold on to what no longer serves them? In the spring? Maybe they wouldn't bud they wouldn't produce flowers or fruit. So it's really okay to let go of things that no longer serve us. People who no longer fit us. And know that that is nature's way of telling us there's something else out there for us. And it's okay to seek it. It's okay to have our I don't know, hands open.
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:12
For sure
Amy Riesenberg 20:12
To see what's going to feel right for us.
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:14
Well, it feels like that place of uncertainty can feel really scary. And I want to make uncertain things certain. And so tell me about that that interaction between uncertainty and eating disorders.
Amy Riesenberg 20:29
Wow. There is a lot of uncertainty in life.
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:33
Yeah.
Amy Riesenberg 20:34
There's a lot of uncertainty in life.
Dr. Karen Nelson 20:36
Amen.
Amy Riesenberg 20:37
What I've been talking about lately around uncertainty is if you think of a person that you know, either personally, or you might know them professionally or at school, or even somebody who's famous, and you look at their lives, and you think, Oh, they've got it all together, everything is going their way. They know exactly where they're going. No, they don't.
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:02
Probably not.
Amy Riesenberg 21:04
We cannot predict the future about what is going to happen, who's going to come into our lives, who's going to leave our lives. And it can seem like when everything's going, okay, that we have it all under control. And then when we not when everything's not okay, oh, you've lost all control. But I think it's really always the same. It's just that we live in a dynamic, ever changing planet in dynamic, ever changing lives.
Dr. Karen Nelson 21:35
I think that place to have, like you said, uncertainty is everywhere, and it feels really scary. And sometimes we can kind of be duped into the belief if I control it just right. If if I, you know, follow this pattern just perfectly, I have the illusion of control. And that's really where I see the space of the eating disorder show up this kind of illusion of control of like, okay, I'll just hyper focus on these things. And I'll feel powerful. And I'll make something certain. Are there any exercises or, you know, examples that you could share with us of how you might have your patient connect with their spirituality.
Amy Riesenberg 22:13
So chaplains, I like to think of us as the keepers of metaphor. That's just kind of where we live, like, oh, that sounds like this, or let me liken that to a tree, or let me you know, this anything like that. And so, there is one metaphor that I enjoy sharing, about how we connect to spirituality to spirit to higher power. Have you ever used a television that has antenna?
Dr. Karen Nelson 22:43
Yes I'm old enough to know exactly what you're talking about. Thank you, Amy, for bringing that up. [Laughs]
Amy Riesenberg 22:48
I'm amazed, I asked that question of all ages, and most people have tried to use
Dr. Karen Nelson 22:53
I love it. That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 22:54
An antenna on a television. But those of us who grew up in it in a certain era..
Dr. Karen Nelson 22:59
Thank You.
Amy Riesenberg 22:59
We had to really work hard.
Dr. Karen Nelson 23:01
Yeah we did.
Amy Riesenberg 23:02
To, to tune into
Dr. Karen Nelson 23:03
The rabbit ears.
Amy Riesenberg 23:04
Yeah. And we had to pull them all up, we had to move the television to the right part of the room, maybe ask our our baby sister to hold it, or we'd put tinfoil on the edges, trying so hard to reach the signal. So that TV signal right now is whizzing past our heads. Like that signal is all around us, this raw signal that we can't see. Right. And the only way we can tap into that is when we extend those antenna. And then it comes through to the television and creates a picture the circuitry of the television. Okay, so just bringing you there.
Dr. Karen Nelson 23:41
Got it.
Amy Riesenberg 23:42
So then now here are the parts of the metaphor to make sense. That raw signal is higher power.
Dr. Karen Nelson 23:48
Wow.
Amy Riesenberg 23:50
It's invisible and undetectable, unless we extend our antenna into it. And then when we pull that signal into the antenna, and into our circuitry, our circuitry is based on our experiences, our traumas, when and where we were born, how we've experienced spirituality in the past, our culture. That is going to dictate what picture shows up on the television screen. In an eating disorder or an addiction, we tend to pull our antennas in, move our televisions down to the basement and turn them off. The mind tells us to do that the eating disorder tells us to do that we can't connect, we won't connect because when we feel connected, we're less likely to use our symptoms. So I like to think about higher power. This whatever it is beyond us that raw signal, and each one of us gets a relationship with it. No intermediary is needed. That is our birthright to have a relationship with that raw signal.
Dr. Karen Nelson 25:11
You are the keeper of metaphor. Like, almost real, not almost is really cool, you are a beautiful storyteller.
Amy Riesenberg 25:21
Oh thank you, i i I'm in the right field for I've always been an analogy, and metaphor finder, it helps me and it's probably because I'm more of a visual thinker.
Dr. Karen Nelson 25:33
I love it.
Amy Riesenberg 25:34
I like to be able to see those things. So metaphors don't work for everybody. And That's ok.
Dr. Karen Nelson 25:38
I wish people could see my face as I'm staring at you with my mouth hanging open, just like what
Amy Riesenberg 25:44
I'm used to that.
Dr. Karen Nelson 25:45
I'm captivated, Amy. I am captivated. Tell me about, do you have a go to exercise that you might use with patients, when they come to you who might be stressed or anxious? Is there kind of a go to that you might use to maybe center them or help them through that.
Amy Riesenberg 26:04
So I have a particular exercise that I do with patients who are more, I would would call them more Christocentric. And because it is scriptural in basis, but it is a meditation, a very quick meditation that one can do to kind of center oneself in that. And it's the scripture of Be Still and know that I am God. And then I say, be still and know that I am. Be still and know, be still, be. So usually with much more time in between.
Dr. Karen Nelson 26:53
Oh that is beautiful.
Amy Riesenberg 26:55
But to remember that that presence, you could you don't have to use the word God, it could be Be still and know that I am here. Be still and know that I am safe. Be still and know, whatever you need to know. Be still and know that I am loved.
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:16
That's so huge. I mean, even just having that conversation in this space, I think about the power of words, and vocabulary. And as you are, you know, saying those words, and I'm hearing them and breathing them in, like there's emotion just popping all over for me.
Amy Riesenberg 27:35
Words are loaded.
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:37
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 27:38
Words and images. And I know therapists use those types of words and images to evoke all sorts of things.
Dr. Karen Nelson 27:49
Hearing that word safe, or loved, or heard or held, often creates a lot of emotion for my patients. What are some things you would recommend for family and friends of patients who are struggling with an eating disorder?
Amy Riesenberg 28:04
First and foremost, the patient needs to be believed this is real this is this is really going on with them. It's hard to understand mental illness and eating disorders, when we're not going through it ourselves. When properly nourishing ourselves is something that comes second nature, or, you know, not suffering from addiction is second nature that we just don't have that component in our brain, or we haven't weathered the type of trauma that might cause that. So I think being really understanding as much as you can, that this is real, a family member, particularly a mother or a father, a parent figure cannot come in and be the therapist or be the chaplain. It is a role that is meant to be a temporary closeness and one then that exits that that solar system but might come back
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:11
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 29:11
On a weekly basis or a monthly basis or when that person has a need. So for friends and family knowing that they don't have necessarily the power to fix this. They didn't cause it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:24
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 29:25
And they can't cure it.
Dr. Karen Nelson 29:26
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 29:27
That and I think that goes into everyone I've met who works at Melrose, not a single one of those people is there because they have to be. Nobodies there trying to figure out what they're going to do with their lives. They are all there because of their big hearts, their big minds and their hope and drive to help patients in crisis, in eating disorders. There's a million places for therapists and dietitians and doctors and nurses to work. But they've chosen this particular group of people to, to walk with to support. And so when a patient does go to Melrose, or sees a provider at Melrose, that that's a really good place for them to be.
Dr. Karen Nelson 30:30
It does feel like people ask me all the time, why eating disorders, and I say, it couldn't be anything but that it was meant to be.
Amy Riesenberg 30:39
That's beatuiful. One of the great privileges of being a chaplain is to witness to how whatever it is beyond us how higher power works through the minds and hearts and hands of the care team to do the right thing at the right time for the right patient. So I think for friends and family members to trust in the process, that that the right things are happening. And I think with any type of eating disorder like this, the path is not straight. We're on a, we're on a weird spiral path in this world.
Dr. Karen Nelson 31:20
That's right. We wander a little bit.
Amy Riesenberg 31:21
We do we wander and and it's and getting from point A to point B is not always a straight path. So oftentimes, recovery is a lifelong
Dr. Karen Nelson 31:37
journey.
Amy Riesenberg 31:38
Journey. Absolutely, that's the right word with dark parts and easy parts and hard parts and relapses. And that's, that's okay. That's not necessarily a failure on anyone's part. That's simply what's happening. And the more we support our loved ones, to seek help, when they feel that they need it, the quicker they're going to get back on their path to recovery and to life.
Dr. Karen Nelson 32:10
You bet that oftentimes, you know, when parents ask, you know, what do I do? I say, Oh, you love them.
Amy Riesenberg 32:16
Yeah.
Dr. Karen Nelson 32:17
You love your kids, just like you always have.
Amy Riesenberg 32:20
I see a lot of a lot of anguished faces
Dr. Karen Nelson 32:24
I bet.
Amy Riesenberg 32:25
In the parents and brave faces too. But especially with the younger people at Melrose, to remind them that their parents do love them very much. We're not given any kind of manual on how to be parents.
Dr. Karen Nelson 32:42
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 32:43
But but the love is assured.
Dr. Karen Nelson 32:46
If you could give one message to our listeners today, what would that be? What is your thesis?
Amy Riesenberg 32:54
My thesis is, I don't know a whole lot for sure. But what I do know for sure is this. Each one of us gets to have a relationship with a higher power. Each one of us gets to live into our spirituality in a way that works for us. It doesn't much matter what anybody else has to say about it. There doesn't have to be an intermediary, there doesn't even have to be a professional Chaplain involved. You each get to have a relationship with something that is just beyond you. And when you think about it, every relationship we have with everyone we know is different. So I might be friends with Jenny and Jenny might be friends with Pam, Jenny and Pam have a different relationship than I do with Jenny. So wouldn't it be the same with God or higher power? Our uniqueness drives our relationships to be as unique as each one of us.
Dr. Karen Nelson 34:00
Absolutely. It's personal.
Amy Riesenberg 34:02
It's very personal.
Dr. Karen Nelson 34:03
That's right.
Amy Riesenberg 34:03
And if it is full of wonder, and safety, and love, then I think you're on the right path.
Dr. Karen Nelson 34:12
I love it. I love it. Well, thank you, Amy. This has been such a rich conversation. And I'm so grateful for sitting here with you today and for all the support you give all of your patients.
Amy Riesenberg 34:25
Aw, you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It was fun.
Dr. Karen Nelson 34:31
That's it for today. Thanks for joining me, we've covered a lot. So I encourage you to let it settle and filter in. And as I tell my patients at the end of every session, take notice, pay attention, and we'll take it as it comes. I'll talk to you next time. Melrose Heals a conversation about eating disorders was made possible by generous donations to the Park Nicollet Foundation.